The Grit Factor Podcast w/ Karl Jacobi

0:00:00 You get to affirm the person, where they're at, and celebrate, where they're at, you know, uh, one of our, I mean, I could just talk about- one of our kids is a recovered addict, and newly recovered addict, and we're celebrating every second that he's recovering right now, and we're gonna spend some
0:00:26 time with him soon, and you know, uh, you just have to celebrate where they're at and then their journey in life and you know one thing you absolutely know about life is things are going to change always and the sooner you figure that out the better.
0:00:47 So we're embracing him where he's at and we're going to spend some time with him and celebrate and go you know not talk about sobriety or talk about addiction but we're going to go do life.
0:01:00 Andy, welcome to the show, my man. Thank you. Absolutely honor to have you in the studio today, man. Thank you.
0:01:08 I appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate the invitation. Yeah, absolutely, man. Absolutely. Andy, you know, I got to tell you, you know, I was going through your bio and going through the information you're given.
0:01:21 In Granted, you know, you and I have had some conversation. We met, you know, earlier this year at a conference.
0:01:27 And I gotta say, man, you have an oppressive background. And you've worn a lot of hats. You've done a lot of rolls spaying over 40 plus years, to the average listeners, probably in more than they've been alive.
0:01:43 Spaying it across multiple industries, multiple rolls. But your focus over the last 10 years has been mainly in e-commerce, building some amazing businesses.
0:01:56 Is that right? Yeah. Actually, it was kind of an overlap. I was in the nonprofit industry for 27 years, I guess, and when Michelle started our e-commerce business, it was a grocery money idea that we bought an e-bay business from a friend.
0:02:17 And a colleague and that blew up into Amazon and the rest of history. But for us, good chunk of the last 10 years, I've been doing mornings, nights, and weekends, e-commerce, and then my real day job during the day.
0:02:34 So it's been a busy time. So in 2022 is really when I retired, if you want to use that word, I don't use that I shouldn't use that word.
0:02:44 I stopped in the fundraising world in the non-profit industry and joined my wife full-time, so. Yeah. Nice. Cool. And do you feel that you're time in the 27 years serving a non-profit and doing the things that you're doing?
0:03:03 How well do you feel that's prepared you for this e-commerce journey? Oh, man. There's some differences there, but I love to hear how much you've prepared you and so forth.
0:03:14 Well, that's a great question. I kind of fell into the nonprofit world from business to begin with, but it prepared me in so many ways.
0:03:25 The nonprofit business is simply business without profit. I mean, you're still running a business. You've got a P&L, you've got a balance sheet, the P&L at the bottom doesn't look like profit.
0:03:36 It looks like net margin, contribution, and lives changed. It's a measurement of, you know, how are we doing financially, but also measures?
0:03:45 How are we doing in the, in the quote, in the life-change quote, because that's really what nonprofit is about. So I learned, I cut my teeth in business in the nonprofit business.
0:03:57 My skill set was in fundraising, definitely not administration and structure in organization. That's my wife's department. but it translates well into sales and relationship building and I have some ability to sort of see the future I guess in some ways about kind of where we should go and stuff but
0:04:22 those skillsets were honed in fundraising because I mean in fundraising it's not like sales because you're exchanging an intangible for money, an intangible value that donor can't access otherwise without the contribution, and then you need to deliver on that intangible, the results, what's happening
0:04:46 , what's going on in my business, it was kids in our world. But in sales and in business, so that's one of the translations for me has been, I need to focus on what I'm good at.
0:05:01 And fundraising has helped me become really good at business development, sales, vision, getting people excited about stuff, and closing the deal.
0:05:14 And whether it's RA sourcing, which is how we started, wholesale relationships, which is where we're doing what we're doing now, which I much prefer.
0:05:25 It's much harder in some ways you know all this but it's there's there's huge challenges there there's nothing easy private label it's at the end of the day relationships really are what's important trust is what's important having fun along the way and my career and nonprofit taught me those things
0:05:50 so awesome Thanks for sharing that man that gives you a pretty good insight you know in the sense of how well that's prepared you how it's translated into a new season of life you're in right so thanks for sharing that man so it helped me in the audience that are washer listening what are you building
0:06:09 right now like what is something that you're super passionate about that you're building right now and why doesn't it matter right probably too many things I think any entrepreneur can relate to this yeah I want to choose between a couple things but we bought a company in October a small toy company
0:06:33 award-winning toy company got an offer on Shark Tank which was kind of cool from Mr. Wonderful yeah so it's Kevin O'Leary.
0:06:43 So it was kind of cool. And it was kind of a, again, relationship that we have with some friends and we're on a boat and we're start talking and he's like, you need to talk to my friend over here.
0:06:56 He's trying to sell a business and we're like, we might be interested. So we get on the phone and boom, we set a date.
0:07:04 We started talking and we bought it up by in the business. So we're excited about that because it's the toy are two employees, they're millennials, they get both our young dads, they're both like AI, you know, sharpshooters, they're amazing, like they are the, they are the rain makers of our business
0:07:26 right now. And we just know we're going to blow this up and it's going to be so, and we're already having fun with it.
0:07:33 So, so yeah, it's sort of one of the books I've read that a colleague and friend mentor in our business really recommended that we read was is called buy it and build by Walker Debel and this was one of those deals where it's like buy it buy the business that's existing that's got good numbers and build
0:07:57 it from there versus start from scratch is sort of the thesis of the book it's a good book so and it really helped us make the decision like let's let's do this and so Michelle and I dumped a bunch of money in and did it and we're we're in it you know took a risk but we're in it to win it so I don't
0:08:20 we see the future it looks pretty good so it's exciting. That's awesome. That's awesome man. Especially yeah that's got to be pretty exciting right you're you know something so unexpected happens right?
0:08:33 Oh yeah. You know because you're you're sitting on a boat and you're having this conversation and suddenly right now you're in a conversation with potential brain acquisition ain't not just any brain acquisition right you're actually acquiring a brand you know that receive an offer on a chart take by
0:08:50 none other than Mr. Wonderful right he's one of my favorites so Mr. Wonderful if you're watching this you know yeah there we go buddy right but man that's that's an awesome story dude that really is but it's also you know hopefully that you know everybody that's watching you can understand that you know
0:09:12 just merely focusing on relationship merely focusing on you know being present and just not having any expectations where that can lead you in life right oh yeah that's awesome.
0:09:26 So help give the audience some perspective here. Myself included. What is the actual size of the operation right now? If you kind of like just kind of, you know, packages all up, I mean, are we talking, you know, a small business here?
0:09:43 Or, you know, just going to see some perspective of what kind of business you got? Yeah, there's several ways to answer that.
0:09:49 In Amazon, you know, And we would be considered to be in the top 5% of sellers, which doesn't mean a lot when you look at the statistics.
0:09:59 You're doing like 3 million or better. But there's not a lot of amateurs, so that tells you there's a lot of amateurs on sellers that aren't selling a lot, that aren't doing a lot.
0:10:15 That's a small number though. Yeah. We did more than that two years ago. So less than that by on purpose this last year, so on average, it averaged out a last couple of years about it right there.
0:10:29 But it's not small numbers, that's for sure that, you know, we have a small team, we've downsized substantially, we made some huge decisions.
0:10:41 One is we decided we're not in the prep and ship business anymore. So we farmed that out to a 3PL.
0:10:47 So I'm sure you know the guy. I know you know who they are, they were at the same show that we were at, and they said, you got to talk to Karl, so anyway, but they're right here in Grand Rapids, and that was a earth-shaking decision because we had this wonderful prep team and had it just dialed right
0:11:11 in. We had all the data, units per hour, boom, boom, boom, all the KPIs lined up. for that team. And we made the decision, we got to be done with that.
0:11:25 And that has freed us up in our minds and in our time and resources and energy to think differently about what we're capable of.
0:11:35 So that's not going to be true for everybody. So not disparaging anybody that's doing doing everything, doing their own prep and ship, have prep and ship teams.
0:11:44 I know a lot of them. And it works works really, really well. Some of our best friends are doing that and they're killing it.
0:11:51 But it was for our age, the flexibility of having that done is way worth the extra little bit of cost per unit.
0:12:05 So it's great. So that was a big one. I don't know if that answers your question, but that was a really big watershed change for us that that has got us into a new place, new mindset.
0:12:19 So yeah, no, that answers it perfectly. And it also gets some insight of some strategic changes you had to make, right?
0:12:28 Because especially in business and entrepreneurship, I mean, we have to make these decisions in a lot of times, especially in the pivots that you made, those decisions can be on you heavily, right?
0:12:41 Because a lot, Emotions are involved, there's people that's involved in this, there's other people's perspectives and opinions and those kinds of decisions can be very heavy to make and oftentimes too many entrepreneurs founders don't make those decisions because of that, right?
0:12:58 Yeah, so you know help us help to you know help down to manure founder business owner right now That's navigating that they're like they're they're frozen like what what?
0:13:09 What inspired you to actually make that decision instead of just like sitting there, you know stir it up in emotions And so right just helped out you know somebody like that this kind of decision.
0:13:21 Yeah That's a great question. One of the things that inspired us was time. Time was against us in the warehouse we were at.
0:13:36 We had been there about a year. We were planning on being there a year and a half give or take.
0:13:45 But the circumstances were changing and we could see that we had to be out in the next six months. So Michelle and I look at each other and we're like do we want to continue to do this part of our business is that something that is an important thing or is that something that we can move aside and give
0:14:05 to professionals that know what they're doing, pay a little bit more, do the math, make sure it actually works, which it did.
0:14:13 And so that was sort of a push. Like it was just literally time. And so we were going to lose our warehouse.
0:14:21 So like either get another warehouse and keep going or hired out. And so we had also acquired a very large thanks to friends.
0:14:34 I can't say that enough. You can't have a very large wholesale account that required more resources than our team and our space could handle.
0:14:52 So that was another big factor like we're going to farm that that part of out anyway to a 3PL so and then we start we're going to hop why don't we define it all out like let's just do it all and then we look at our beautiful process that we put together and it's like we have to dismantle all this and
0:15:13 say goodbye to our team which that was the hardest part especially our manager so the 3PL that we hired we worked it out where they hired our manager full time so that took care that and then the rest of our team sort of just left and for different reasons and it sort of was okay and that's what that's
0:15:34 what did it so it was really those two those two big things that huge wholesale account was too big for us to handle anyway and the time factor was like we were getting pushed out so it's like yeah let's let's make this decision now and live with the consequences and see what happens yeah it makes sense
0:15:54 for sure you know so it sounds like that was a pretty good business decision right so it ended up being one yep yep awesome so look at your bio and I was looking at your bio really a treat you know because you graduate from Michigan State University right with a master's in fishery and wildlife yeah
0:16:16 did you ever use that degree I did and you did yeah well amazing because, you know, unfortunately, too many people don't use their degrees, right?
0:16:31 Right. So they often use that as kind of like a stepping stone, or, you know, yeah, I guess I don't see that as a stepping stone into something different or maybe, you know, causing the pivot into a different direction.
0:16:46 Right. Awesome. Yeah. Well, yeah. No, I used it for five years. I got hired right out of college to join a consulting firm.
0:16:57 So it got me into consulting, which is what we do a lot of today in our business. So it's familiar turf and I really enjoyed my job back then.
0:17:07 But the Lord called me into fundraising and non-profit executive leadership and all those other things that I ended up doing with my career.
0:17:16 So I did that for five years, though. And it was a foundational experience, for sure, to be a biologist and hire people and do proposals and projects and be accountable to a client and all that stuff, so yeah.
0:17:28 That's awesome, man. There's a lot of preparation in just stepping stones and different paths you have taken. Yeah. By the sounds of this, you've really have built an amazing engine with all these different pieces, segments of business that's churned in a way and turn in some revenue and profits and
0:17:49 so forth. So it sounds like you and your partner in wife have built an amazing business empire and so forth.
0:17:58 But look at your profile. And I know this with you personally, because I also have a personal relationship with you.
0:18:07 And so I did hear some of this already, but that road wasn't the smoothest path. I mean, this is where so many people outside looking in don't understand the roads that we have to take to get where we are, right?
0:18:27 So lock us through for a moment because you mentioned something in your bio and I really want you to talk us through with this for a moment.
0:18:39 You mentioned losing your son after a long battle with your mental health. Yeah. Take us to the hardest day of that fight, man Before he passed what did that day look like?
0:18:54 Oh Man trying to think of which was which would be the hardest day. There was multiple Hard days A month before he died.
0:19:04 I had to call the police because he was on the street not himself and nobody knew where he was, but I got him on the phone.
0:19:14 And I told him, I'm calling the police to find you and we had an altercation conversation about that. But he ended up walking home and the police found him, but he was on his way home when they found.
0:19:29 That was a hard night, but that was, but I mean, when he was a teenager, he got, so schizophrenia manifests itself when you're a teenager is just extreme depression, like dark hole suicidal depression or anger or just all kinds of different things.
0:19:48 It just depends on the kid. For Jake it was extreme depression and just the fear of losing him to suicide every night when he was 14 and a half, 15 years old is the worst.
0:20:00 I mean, you can't sleep. Imagine that as a parent wondering if your kids can be alive in the morning every single day, and then carry that forward for 15 years, because it's like that every single day.
0:20:11 So you just don't know if you're going to lose your kid. So it's a horrible disease. There's a good medication for it nowadays.
0:20:22 He was also bipolar, so he had really double whammy going on for him. But he did a lot of things in life.
0:20:29 But I would just say every day it was It a hard day, but there were some days that were harder than others to answer your question.
0:20:34 There were some days that I'd drop everything I'm doing. I'm in the middle of a phone call with my boss or a client or somebody in my nonprofit days, and I'd be like, I gotta go, sorry, and then I'd get in a car and go.
0:20:53 I mean, it's just like that, it was like that a lot. But there were some beautiful parts to it too.
0:21:00 we were hunting buddies. We had a great time together. I mean, it wasn't all dark. He got married, he ended up with a college, he got a college degree, four-year degree in environmental science.
0:21:13 I helped him with this, I helped him do a senior study at our lake, which was kind of cool. And he killed some monster bucks on our property, and he kept outkilling bucks on me, including the the last year of his life so we had we've had a lot of fun together over the years too so I can't say that it's
0:21:34 all been dark but the darkest times we're always those phone calls or text messages that you get randomly the biggest fear every parent has right it's like your kid just got an accident is dead you know like that's just the worst your worst fear is a parent yeah so I had to live with that worst fear
0:21:50 every day since he was about 15. That's got to wear on you as a human being. As a human, yeah.
0:22:04 Yeah, because we already have battles that we have to fight, you know, with our businesses or in our careers, just life, period, and, you know, yeah, that's something that no parents should ever have to deal with.
0:22:19 No. It's that situation. But so you share some of this, but you know because of this I will love this now on a personal.
0:22:31 What was your favorite memory, man? What is one favorite memory that you have with your son, Jacob? Um, gosh. A lot of things flash in my mind when And you say that, hang on a second, I would say, I mean, his wedding day was one, for sure he dated this wonderful girl that he met at Spring Hill and they
0:23:01 fell in love, got married and she got married in my eyes wide open, you know, and knew she was marrying his kids friend heck and had you know had some challenges to deal with but you know they went through life together and that was that was a great day that was one of the best for sure I'm looking at
0:23:20 a picture right now of Jake with my dad we sat together in the hunting blind and I think it was a youth hunt or something anyway he was I think he was probably about 14 or 13 or something and he He killed his first buck, the three of us sitting there together.
0:23:40 It was just the coolest experience and it's just great. He loved his grandpa. So those are a couple of good ones.
0:23:51 There's another picture that flashes in my mind of him catching this giant bass. He actually caught lots of giant fish, too.
0:23:58 He's just luck. But he caught this giant bass when he was a little kid and we took pictures and let it go.
0:24:04 and then he did it again several years ago, we let that one go too, and I got pictures of that too.
0:24:11 So anyway, just a lot of things like that. Thanks for asking. Yeah, thanks for sharing that, man. Thanks for sharing that.
0:24:19 Yeah. So in your profile, you mentioned that with that that season that that occurred, right, with the loss of Jake but so for you mentioned how that gave you and like how you turned this walk away power business negotiations.
0:24:41 Now for a lot of people that would sound absolutely counterintuitive unpack that for me. Thank you yeah. Going through an experience like this that's chronic not acute you know 15 year journey gives you perspective on a lot of things that makes you appreciate things that that should be appreciated more
0:25:07 like relationships and having fun and enjoying the moments that you have. It also helps you realize how how much to value things that you might have otherwise put way too much value in.
0:25:25 So So the walk away power negotiations are just approaching a potential client on things or just the ability to hold on to loosely.
0:25:37 I think it's probably a better way of saying it, like, walk away power, like it's okay. You know, there's things that are way more important in life than whether this deal happens or not in this in the way I want it to go.
0:25:50 Like if we can make everybody happy in this deal, that's way better than me. getting a little bit more. And so we try to only do business with people that we really enjoy spending time with and can have good relationships with.
0:26:10 It's one of our core values. It's trust and fun. Two of our three core values for our business and personal lives too.
0:26:18 So yeah, so we want to dial in on that and but I think if you just have this this long valley of pain or a short valley of pain that's been that was so acute and so powerful that it gives you a perspective in life that turns you around and makes you realize this business stuff yeah that's it's it's great
0:26:41 it's fun but at the end of the day I can just I'll figure something else out if I need to you know like it's just not that critical.
0:26:51 So give your perspective. It does agree whole horrible way. Explain that, especially in a sense of perspective. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
0:27:01 And I think you can agree with this, you know, but I'm gonna believe that we get tied up in caught up on so many different things that goes on in our life, the uncontrollables, right?
0:27:18 Right. Whether it's a platform issue, like Amazon, Walmart, or whatever, right? And it's nuances. And just things that happen. But at the end of the day, man, it's people in your life, the relationships that you have, you know, that in the day is the utmost critical component.
0:27:37 You know, that's there's nothing to replace at that. That's right. And I think we caught too much in the moments of all these things that occurs.
0:27:47 And it's like, you know what? Who cares, you know? I lost money, who cares. And I know a lot of people right now are be like, you know, but is it really more important than life?
0:27:58 Is it more than important than those relationships that people that love you, that you love, right? Nothing replaces that. No, that's right, that's right.
0:28:08 And it doesn't mean it's not important to be successful and find ways to success. Learn your lane, learn your strengths and your weaknesses and backfill your weaknesses with people like can do that stuff.
0:28:24 And find ways to be successful. It's fun when you are, but it's a constant battle. It's not easy. I think several years ago, I would have still believed this.
0:28:36 like all those people, they just kind of, they're smarter than me, they know they went to business school, they know what they're doing.
0:28:49 And none of that is like, I think it would be great that I would, if I could have gone to business school, that would have really helped.
0:28:55 But it's at the end of the day, it's not like that. It's just plain hard work. Everybody I know that it's been successful, they've just worked their butts off.
0:29:08 Yeah. In the nonprofit, for profit, it doesn't matter. That's what it is. You're right. It is an interesting point, especially in today's times, we miss that, right?
0:29:22 I think we live in the best time possible right now because if you want to put in the work, the time right now has been never been easier to win just because there's this perception out there that it shouldn't take hard work to be successful.
0:29:43 I love how you share that. One thing I want to pivot on for a second because you mentioned weaknesses and I've heard this a few times and I want to shift this a moment.
0:29:53 So looking at the philosophy that you shared about walk away power and weaknesses, and especially how he hits the P&L specifically, right?
0:30:04 Well, you're your lovely wife. I've had the honor and privilege of meeting her amazing lady, right? Yeah, yeah, she is.
0:30:11 She's gonna say, right? But it's true. You know, amazing woman, right? And she isn't here today, but you to run this business together and I love how you said partnerships only work in complimentary skill sets right yeah agree more with this yeah one thing I think you alluded to this but I really want
0:30:37 you to point this out what is the one thing that she does that you are absolutely strictly forbidden from touching Besides payroll.
0:30:49 Do we want to touch that? No. So I think it's the authors of the EOS system. They talk about the visionary and the integrator.
0:31:02 And a good visual is people holding hands. So, your strengths are your fingers, but you have weakness right in your webbing.
0:31:16 But when you hold hands, your strengths cover each other's weaknesses. And that's Michelle and I for sure were fortunate that we have complimentary skill sets.
0:31:28 She's got one that I don't have, I've got one that she doesn't have, and it works. So I don't touch, I really don't touch payroll, that would be bad.
0:31:38 She does all the back-end troubleshooting on both Amazon and Walmart accounts. She is right now triaging a much product that needs to be divided out.
0:31:53 She's really great. Anything that's structural in the company, that's her thing. That's one of her three core values. Personal core values is structure for her, but it's also one of our company core values.
0:32:05 So thankfully, that's a company core value because she has structure in the forefront of her mind all the time. She, again, this is coming from weakness.
0:32:17 She wouldn't mind me saying this. She's got ADHD and autoimmune diseases and some other challenges. But the perceived weakness of ADHD also has some hidden strengths in it.
0:32:36 One of them is for her, she copes with that by creating structure and discipline for certain parts of her life, including the business, so that she can deal with the craziness of the focus issues and all of that with ADHD.
0:32:54 So it's really become a blessing. So I would say it's anything that in the business that she touches that has to do with infrastructure scaffolding, things like that, she does it, admin, troubleshooting all that stuff, all the stuff that I am terrible at and don't and I don't even like to do.
0:33:14 I'll do it, but I don't like it and I'm never good at it. I hear you, man. There's a couple things you which I want to touch on for a moment, especially core values, man.
0:33:25 I heard you say this several times, and this is an area that I dive into heavily with any man I work with all along, because this is your lighthouse, right?
0:33:37 This is like your guiding system of how you make decisions, how you manage, and not just life, this is how you manage your businesses, right?
0:33:46 So, yeah. Yeah, help me through just how important core values is, not just to you, but for your business. Right.
0:33:56 It's a great question and it's an important one and I think people miss this a lot. And I think there's the earlier you identify and the more it will help guide the ship that you're in.
0:34:14 So it's interesting because my core values were formed, you know, throughout, through living, but it's fun, trust, and passion. And we have a card deck that I use where you can discover your core values.
0:34:32 It's really cool. It's a card deck with all these keywords on it. and you treat as your way through them, and then you end up with a force ranking, and you end up with your top three.
0:34:40 It works every time. It's amazing. So we did that exercise with Michelle. This is when we were first getting to know each other.
0:34:50 So this is our second marriage, which is a whole another podcast. I'm just doing another one. We probably should, and I just found that alone.
0:34:58 It's a fantastic story. It's a wonderful story at the end of the day, but born out of extreme hardship, so but in any case, when Michelle did her core values, she, again, this is sort of blind, it just comes out, hers were fun, trust, and structure.
0:35:22 So we had two of our three core values overlapped naturally, which was really awesome. So So out of our personal core values came our business core values, okay?
0:35:34 It wasn't like we had to invent them. Core values are discovered, they're not invented, okay? So we took the two that we overlap on fun and trust, like we're going to trust the people we hire because we can move at the speed of trust.
0:35:52 You can fly when you trust people. If you don't trust people in your business, they shouldn't be there. So because you can just absolutely fly when you trust people and then fun like life is too short We're you know, we're gonna we're gonna enjoy this journey that we've been put on and then the structure
0:36:11 part came from Michelle Like if you're gonna do Amazon a Walmart or e-commerce at all or business at all Structure is critical You can't avoid it So that's how we ended up with it.
0:36:26 I would, that makes so much sense for Michelle, right? Because based on what I'm understanding or what I heard is, you know, she suffers from ADHD.
0:36:35 So having that structure keeps her focus, right? Keep her in alignment. So that makes so much sense. Yeah. And I love how you blend that into your core values.
0:36:49 Passion, fun, right? not to take yourself so seriously, not to take your life so seriously, you know, especially in what you experienced, right, you've learned, you've got to have fun in the small blips of time that you were almost blue marble, right?
0:37:07 That's right. Yeah. Yeah. To not just sit there and be present, be where you feed our in any situations. You're right.
0:37:16 Appreciate you sharing that. Yeah, sure. You mentioned partnerships throughout, and I think I might share this, but I've had my fair share of partnerships both good and definitely not so good, and I don't get me wrong I've had some amazing partnerships as well.
0:37:36 So what is, and I love the, I even really appreciate the fact that you say, you know, complimentary skill sets, right?
0:37:46 So, to that person, or individuals out there that are, you know, psyched about business, but they feel like they need to get into a partnership, or they want to get into a partnership.
0:37:57 What do you say to that entrepreneur to guide them accordingly to make sure they're making the right decision about partnerships?
0:38:05 About getting into a partnership, like a business partnership or the co-owning of business. Yeah, that's a big deal. So I read somewhere 80% of partnerships fail, so that's true, it's the rare ones that survive.
0:38:25 So I would say choose your partner wisely and carefully. It has ruined many best friends' relationships. And I think, you know, mine was chosen for me.
0:38:39 It was, you know, Michelle had a job opening in 2021 and said, I'm going to need to hire somebody here pretty quick and can it, you know, I'd like it to be you.
0:38:48 And it's actually going to be nobody else except you. And I'm like, I dragged my feet for six or eight months and I had to get my mentors around me to convince me that I need to do it because I didn't want to leave the non-profit space.
0:39:02 But anyway, I would say just be careful in choosing a partnership with somebody and I don't have a lot of advice there because it was just sort of a natural thing for us to move into, I would say evaluate each other's skill sets carefully to make sure that they're complimentary and evaluate each other's
0:39:36 egos. You just got to leave your egos out somewhere out there because it's just not, it should not enter into your business partnership at all because it's just a power and it's not about that, so it's about the relationship and getting the job done and enjoying it together.
0:40:01 So pick somebody that you want to have lunch with a lot. A lot. You emphasize a lot, right?
0:40:13 Because you're gonna. Yeah, 100%. Thanks for sharing that. I agree. You know, definitely on the complimentary skill sats and so forth and reasonable expectations.
0:40:26 Oh, yeah. You know, there's a freight when you you mentioned the statistic of 80% of partnerships are over that fail.
0:40:35 There was a phrase that I heard, I don't remember who was it said it, or off top of my head, but the quickest shifts to sink as a partnership.
0:40:46 You're 100% correct. I've personally seen it wreck marriages. I've seen it wrecked, you know, life, I would say lifetime, but long-term relationships, this, you know, unfortunately people just get the false expectations and false ideas, and it damages relationships, man.
0:41:04 Yeah, fortunately. Yep, yep, it can. Awesome, man. Well, cool. Well, to all the A&Ds out there that are, you know, that have been fighting this similar fight, and just navigating these challenges that you guys have challenged, or you've been challenged with.
0:41:23 What do you say to this A&D out there, or A&Ds, to to encourage them to continue to fight like what do you say to this person yeah right well as a Christian I would say you know you got a lean on the Lord in prayer and time with him in the word and with mentors that are like-minded and lean on them,
0:41:55 listen to them, spend time with other people that are in the same boat. So that would be another thing to do.
0:42:06 Listen to that. The other people's journey. I mean you can have a lot of empathy when you're going through it yourself or have gone through stuff.
0:42:16 You can certainly understand somebody else's perspective, but they can understand yours too and help you in it. I would say, yeah, what would I say to another Andy?
0:42:35 I would say be able to look in past your current situation and into the future and also know that it's going to be okay at the end of the day regardless of the result.
0:42:55 That's hard when you're going through it. I would also say I had a conversation with a guy about this yesterday.
0:43:04 It's a father of he's got a daughter, a married daughter, and his son-in-law is an alcoholic and has talking about that, and he's a great guy, but anyway, I think part of it is like with Jake it was, I had to lose my expectations and I should have lost him a lot sooner.
0:43:36 And I think even for parents with kids that don't have mental illness that are just normal kids. I think I've seen this.
0:43:44 I did this. Parents put expectations on their kids that don't belong there and it puts a ton of pressure on a kid.
0:43:52 But when you have expectations that aren't being met over and over and over again, you just get to press yourself and send your your kids can't stand it either and it's just no good for anybody.
0:44:03 So I would say if you could instead of replace your expectations with love and just love them for who they are and encourage them in the direction that they're they're being pulled and that they're going and and support them that way rather than say you know have your expectations a second they come
0:44:23 out of the womb it's like you know here's my next baseball star so you know or whatever so I would say lose your expectations since early, regardless of whether you have a Jake who'd been your life or not.
0:44:38 What would it be fair to say? Well, first of all, thanks for sharing that, because I completely agree with, especially on a part of the expectations, that's a realization I have had to come to as well.
0:44:51 What would it be fair to say that when you ditched expectations, it actually gives you more happiness in freedom. Yeah, yeah.
0:45:02 It does. You get to affirm the person where they're at and celebrate where they're at, you know, one of our, I mean, I could just talk about it.
0:45:17 One of our kids is a recovered addict and newly recovered addict. And we're celebrating every second that he's recovering right now and we're going to spend some time with him soon and you just have to celebrate where they're at and then their journey and life and you know one thing you absolutely know
0:45:45 about life is things are going to change always and the sooner you figure that out the better So we're embracing him where he's at and we're going to spend some time with him and celebrate and go, you know, not talk about sobriety or talk about addiction, but we're just going to go do life.
0:46:03 There you go. Yeah. I think that's, that's, that's, I think that's where happiness is, right? Yeah. And this what strips so many people away, you know, with strips happiness and joy away from life because we have these perceived expectations.
0:46:23 Whether it's with our spouses, it's our kids, our business partners, our friends, anybody, right? We have these perceived expectations and when they're not met, you know, we get disappointed, we sometimes we get to fight arguments and obviously, you know, motions are heightened But when those emotions
0:46:45 come out, I was like, well, I was pretty stupid, you know, in a sense of why that argument or why that, you know, expectation was there in the first place.
0:46:54 Right. Oh, yeah. Yep, I agree. So shifting, you know, for a moment, especially as we start to wrap this up, I'm of the belief that Gret looks different in every season of life.
0:47:12 And I'm sure you can agree because you've been through a lot of different seasons, both you and Michelle and especially as individuals.
0:47:20 And I loved how you define grit as you just mentioned it's not too long ago as being able to see past the present into your future, especially as we navigate tough seasons and things that man, in that current moment, you just can't see the path forward.
0:47:44 Right? In your situation, you know, as you look past into the presence right now, what do you see? Like, give us a glimpse of what you see into Andy's future.
0:47:56 Well, that's a great question because we're going to significant transition in our life for approaching 60. Congratulations. Very soon. Um, so it makes you think differently like, uh, statistically, I don't have a lot of time left on this planet.
0:48:14 Um, also an important thing to acknowledge and be aware of. So I, I think is, we look into the near future, you know, for Michelle and I, it's like, how are we going to transition nicely, smoothly into a different work speed and pace?
0:48:33 Um, we've been flying pretty hard. but we love it. Partly because we have a core value of funds so we're going to love it otherwise we're not doing it.
0:48:46 But I would say looking into the future for Michelle and I for our business we're going to be definitely slowing ourselves down and empowering our team to take got more on.
0:49:03 I think that's already happening. It's already in the works. So we're grateful for that. We're grateful that we can do that.
0:49:13 Grateful to have two amazing millennials that are super smart and talented and capable and excited and stuff and align with their core value as well.
0:49:25 So I guess that's probably our next big thing is not the toy company that we bought or the consulting work that's growing or the wholesale accounts that we need to continue to add to and grow and whatever.
0:49:40 But it's really the bigger theme of that transition of life, which is over business, over all of life, right? The transition of our life into doing other things that are more important, and yet maintaining some way to have income, have some skin in the game here so that we can continue to do those important
0:50:07 things like see your grandkids and your kids and take us, you know, spontaneous moment to go somewhere warm, which we're gonna do.
0:50:19 Or go serve, you know, services on our bucket list and we haven't had a minute to go do a like service work and disaster relief and things like that that's on our bucket list so we're going to do those things.
0:50:30 Awesome. So yeah that's probably the next big thing on the horizon. Okay awesome. That's a pretty good that's pretty good list right?
0:50:40 I mean you look at everything you know spend time with family and really just cherishing you know the moments we have and also to be service of other people, right?
0:50:54 Right. I think this is where a lot of people go wrong in quote-unquote retirement. I hate to use the word retirement because you really should never really retire.
0:51:08 Right. Even biblically speaking, we don't even quote-unquote retire, right? There's no such thing. No. You know, you just only seasons where we changed direction, but we always we always we need to always continue to serve, maybe just different capacities or a different type of service, right?
0:51:28 I appreciate sharing them because a lot of individuals, especially business owners, entrepreneurs, founders, just builders in general, we tend to lose sight of that service aspect.
0:51:40 Right. It's always the hustle, the constant grind, and we kind of lose sight of that, you know. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's true.
0:51:50 Well, one of my beliefs in this, you know, recent season is, instead of always trying to add new things, right, new habits, new processes, new strategies, you know, just add, add, add, add, right?
0:52:06 Especially after, you know, the New Year, where he's talking about these New Year resolutions, which I personally freaking can't stand, right, New Year, New Year type of thing, right.
0:52:16 I would like to focus on the other side of the spectrum, you know, for example, removing. What am I going to stop doing?
0:52:25 Right, right, right. So I would love to hear you, your perspective, you know, what is one habit belief friction point that you're actively trying to quit right now in this season?
0:52:39 It's a great question. One of my favorite books, I got a long list of books that I have of red that have influenced my life, but one of them is essentialism.
0:52:49 If you've ever read it. It's like a time I've heard that. Greg McEwan. All right, it's time to read a buddy.
0:52:54 Yup. So, it's a great book. It's a short read. You'll be done with it in a couple of days and you'll be like, oh my gosh.
0:53:02 Why didn't I read that five years ago? But what, you asked a great question and it's prescient because this is right now.
0:53:15 There's a whole bunch of things that I'm doing that I should not be doing. We talked about this a few minutes ago, and I always bleed into stuff that I shouldn't be doing.
0:53:24 But there are only two things that I should be doing, and I need to do sales. I need to generate business.
0:53:36 And that is the number one thing that I have to be doing. Anything else is ancillary to that. and the second thing is buying.
0:53:45 I'm a good buyer. I know the data. I cut my teeth in R.A., so if you've done R.A., you know how to buy.
0:53:52 You know the data, and I actually are guys are probably even better buyers than me. At least one of them is.
0:54:00 I hate to admit that, but I think it's true. But anyway, so I really need to, you know, so I literally really just the last phone call I had before talking to you today was about just that, like, what else can I give, one of our team members was on the line?
0:54:18 What else can I give you so I can do those two things? And so we're in that transition right now, like I am literally, I had like repricing, okay?
0:54:32 I, for the first time ever today, I gave it up. I'm done repricing. That was the only, it was the one thing I was holding as tight as possible, but I'm done with it.
0:54:44 Inventory management, done with it. What the chips fall where they made those pallets sitting over there, not my responsibility. My responsibility is to get the good ones in the door.
0:54:55 So I'm just at that stage of life and work where I know my best for the company is to do those two things really really well.
0:55:07 So I'm giving up a lot of things, some of which I love to do, you know. Yeah. Well it sounds like you're staying, how remember what book this was?
0:55:18 You mentioned books quite a few times and I would say I love reading but I've got into the habit of reading.
0:55:25 Yeah it's good. It is. 100% agree. I think that was probably one of the smartest things I've ever done because in school and especially in college I certainly did not enjoy reading.
0:55:37 Yeah, but I understand that. Yeah, but I'm really, and I'm sure you can agree, we're doing it for a different reason, right?
0:55:44 We're actually doing it against the nuggets of how we can implement our lives or businesses and so forth. But where I was going with this is as I'm hearing you talk and I'm hearing this theme is focus on your zone of genius.
0:55:56 Yeah, right. You know, focus on your zone of genius because when you could focus on that right and only on that may end up it's life's gets fun you know you can trust who you are you can trust in your identity you can trust in the process and and be able to trust those around you to focus on their zone
0:56:16 of genius right exactly you know so that's a great perspective I appreciate you sharing that yeah let's talk about you know a little about in the trenches there are some quotes I kind of like the pull from you know that I hear when I'm in the trenches man and and I really need some inspiration and draw
0:56:40 from that being said what is one quote or directive that you constantly repeat yourself I mean that's not so constantly but you like to repeat yourself to keep moving forward is there anything like jumps out I'm not Keep, yeah.
0:57:00 Not really. I don't have a go-to like that. It's more of a, Maybe it's more activity related. Like when I need a boost, I will go, I was talking to Michelle about to see the day when I was really, really going through it.
0:57:22 But in my marriage in with Jake, we were having a tough winter at the place I worked at. And I had to, I took my lunch hours for like a week and went out into the cedar swamp with a saw.
0:57:43 And I cut down the white cedar boughs to feed the deer because deer love white cedar. And but the browse line in the wintertime they they can only reach so high and then they eat it all And then anyway, it was just a thing like I can't I can't fix these things in my life right now But I can fix this
0:58:05 for the deer a little bit and get my head out and talk out loud to the Lord and nobody else is gonna hear me You know and and just gets it and so it's more of an activity for me It's like we have we're blessed we have we're grateful for a river behind our house I get to walk up to the river bank and
0:58:25 just stand there and watch It's just majestic. I mean, it's this beautiful river. It's full of wildlife and ducks and fish and I mean everything I could dream of and I need that's what fills me is it's more of that and then when we go out to our property of North I do a lot of talking out loud to the
0:58:44 Lord. And then sometimes yell at my son or talk to them both. I do both. Yeah. But you know, so those are probably the go-to things for me.
0:58:56 One thing I'm here in, you know, and what is one of the things I admire about you, man, is your faith, man.
0:59:04 You know, I've heard us pop up, you know, numerous times. How important is it to you as a man? As a father, as a husband, as a business owner, how important is your faith to you?
0:59:17 Well, it's everything. I mean, without faith that there's really not a lot of reason for anything at the end of the day.
0:59:26 So I think it's really, it's everything. It gives you the ability to persevere through things. It gives you wisdom and guidance through the word and through other people, God-fearing men and women in your life.
0:59:41 And so the hope of heaven, the hope of being able to see people that have gone before you is a huge thing.
0:59:52 So all of that has shaped me throughout my life. I'm grateful to have been raised to Christian, but I certainly had some straining moments in my life where I was like, I'm not sure about all this crap, but came back to it after really struggling with it, wrestling with it, and having those existential
1:00:12 moments as a young man and thinking, you know, is this really real? What does the universe all about? How is how is this all made?
1:00:18 You know, the science, I'm a scientist, so you know, science, science and nature and all of those things are complimentary to faith, to Christianity.
1:00:27 But for some people that that's not true, like they can't have science, but you know, if you have God, you can't have science, but they're complimentary, God created science, so to help us understand the world.
1:00:42 So, so anyway, that's that's sort of my short answer. We could talk about that for another podcast. I definitely is sensing that.
1:00:51 So it works. Okay, there we go. For sure. Okay, sure. So, yeah, I don't know if you've seen this video, but there was a video that's going viral right now where there's numerous people, You know interviewin a lot of individuals would you accept 500 K or dinner with Jesus and I had yet to see one person
1:01:11 that said Fiverr K every see yeah has been energy so I would be inclined to say that you're probably oh yeah, right.
1:01:18 Oh, man Yeah, for sure with you man with you As we wrap up man I'm of the belief because I've been there myself especially in the trenches especially you know a lot of times this can weigh on us, right?
1:01:33 High achievers are expert critics of themselves, right? So I just want to take a moment, especially for those out there right now that are carrying some type of guilt, some type of shame in their past life and their past season where there was a day ago, a week ago, a month ago, or even 10 years ago.
1:01:52 What is the one mistake or failure that you've had to finally, you know, finally, to forgive yourself for it in order for you to level to be free.
1:02:06 Well, big failure, certainly was the failure of my first marriage. That's a big fail. I did everything I could to save it.
1:02:19 It was, yeah, it was an addiction involved, not me. So, it was just one of those things where I can't fix it, and everybody suffered throughout that journey, including my kids.
1:02:36 And I just don't know what I could have done differently, but I always feel like I should have done something different.
1:02:42 I just don't know what, but that's probably the biggest one. Um, um, um, um, lots of fails in business, but I mean, we just fail forward.
1:02:54 You just say, oh, well, let's try something else then, you know, just fail forward. Keep failing forward till you figure it out.
1:03:00 Um, so that's not a negative really. But, but yeah, makes for sharing that. I mean, especially if they'll for because, you know, I'm sure anybody is listening right now, especially those that are in the, in the building phase of their business or maybe they're starting or they've had their rears handed
1:03:19 to them you know there's often this perception that if you know if you fail once right or I hate to work fail but if the first business doesn't work you know there's this perception well maybe business isn't for me right right yeah to to that person and I think you would agree about what I just heard
1:03:41 just keep moving forward, you know, take the lessons you've learned, take the lessons you've learned for sure, know your skillsets, and you use them, leverage your skillsets.
1:03:56 Stop trying to put a square peg into a round hole if you're trying to do that, you know. That doesn't work?
1:04:02 No. Who would have thought? Yeah. Who would have thought? Because I love building you know a chain of iron you know part of as I wrap up interviews is I like getting questions from a previous guest to ask my next guest if you're hosting this interview will be the one question you would love to ask this
1:04:26 person this next guest right so I'm gonna let that linger for you to ask this next question what would be the one question that you would love to ask the next guest, if you were me.
1:04:39 But my previous guest, I think this fits perfectly, which has been ironic and how this has been working out. But my question to you was this, what was the moment in your life that made you feel like there was no other way but entrepreneurship?
1:05:00 And you know, Where did, where you had to control your own success? Like your own path per se? Yeah, that's good.
1:05:09 It was in 2021, the trajectory of our business was like this. And Michelle was desperate for help. And I was given everything I could in the mornings, nights and weekends.
1:05:23 And I had been hired in the nonprofit company. one of my best friends who had been supporting his nonprofit for years.
1:05:36 He's an incredible social entrepreneur. I was working for him. But Michelle was like, Andy, you got to make a choice.
1:05:43 You can't do both anymore. You got to work with me or I'm going to hire somebody or you got to just stay doing what you're doing.
1:05:49 And I was leading the fundraising effort on the executive team and we were going places and there was trouble in the nonprofit.
1:05:55 I just didn't feel like I could leave my friend and part of it was pride quite frankly. You wear this badge of I'm doing ministry work right here and it's pride and it's wrong.
1:06:12 So that would be it. That would be the one moment where it was like I'm going to make this decision and then we moved it, but it took six months to get there, but I finally did it.
1:06:26 So that was it, the pressure, the pressure was behind and pulling me, it was pushing and pulling me into the decision.
1:06:36 And that's sort of how life is, you know, you get it pushed and pulled, sometimes at the same time and sometimes in the same direction, which is always a good thing.
1:06:46 Yeah, so I don't know if that answered your question, but no, that's that was perfect. Thank you. Yeah. So, you know, as I mentioned earlier, there's that part two, right?
1:06:58 So what would you, what's the question you would like to ask the next guest? What was the next check? Yeah, I would, I would say name, name the most influential book you've ever read and why?
1:07:16 And you could you could praise that for business or for your personal life or whatever you want to do it I mean you could cut you could position it, you know, but Especially with the next guest that's coming up good who it is right this second You'll you'll find out, but it actually fits perfectly.
1:07:39 This is this is amazing good So awesome man. Well Andy, brother, it has been an amazing time together. I mean I really appreciate you sharing and being courageous to go into the valley, sharing everything you've shared and all the insights, all of the turmoil that you and Michelle have suffered but also
1:08:03 all the successes because you know as we talked about earlier man there's too many people that view highlight reels on social media with all of the perceived successes, but they don't see the roads underneath that took to get there, right?
1:08:20 The hardships, that versus the seasons, and all that. Brother, I really appreciate you sharing that, and again, thank you for joining me today.
1:08:30 Where can someone find that more about you to thank you for sharing your story, to to encourage you or work and learn more about you and what you're doing.
1:08:43 More about me and what I'm doing. Probably I have to just call me or email me, probably because I'm not out there.
1:08:53 I'm on Facebook, so you could become my friend. That'd be fun. So look at my Facebook. Yup, look me up on Facebook.
1:09:03 our website. You could go there and book some time with me too. I'd love to talk with anybody that we were open book.
1:09:12 We share information with you know we our business was built on our friends and their information and that they're willing as to share.
1:09:20 So we do we do the same thing with people so our website would be another another place so they can book 30 minutes with me.
1:09:27 Awesome. And what is that website? WestMProductsGroup.com, WestMProductsGroup.com. Awesome. Thanks for sharing that. I'll link all that in the show notes.
1:09:39 Okay. Your Facebook profile, your website, and anybody that wants to thank you for sharing your story, or just thank you, or just be part of your journey, or just keep up with you, and so forth.
1:09:53 or just learn more about you, man, I'll definitely put that in the show note so they can reach out. Yeah, sure.
1:10:00 Awesome. Well, Andy, thank you, Giffr. Joining me into the arena today. Thank you, Giffr. So much. Appreciate it. Thank you.
1:10:06 Yep. Take care. What a powerful conversation. Andy's living proof that you can build a massive business without losing your soul.
1:10:19 His concept of walk away power. forge through the fire of personal tragedy is a lesson every person needs to hear.
1:10:30 True leverage comes from holding everything loosely. As I mentioned in intro, Andy sent me a beautiful raw tribute he wrote about his son Jacob.
1:10:42 It puts everything we build into business life. What have you into perspective? I I've included a link to download that directly in the show notes, so please take a moment to read it.
1:10:59 But as I warned you earlier, bring the tissues. If you want to connect who with, maybe you can add this out or edit this, I'm not going to redo this.
1:11:10 If you want to connect with Andy, he's an open book. You can find him on Facebook or visit his site on the show notes, but do go check out the story in a notes, hug your loved ones, keep moving forward.
1:11:26 And share this episode. I'll see you in the next one.