The Grit Factor Podcast w/ Karl Jacobi

TGFP_Audio_Ep25

00:00:00 Speaker: Average is the enemy of greatness. Comfort is the enemy of growth. Welcome to the Grit Factor podcast, where we strip away the highlight reel and get into the darkness beneath it. The real stories, the real battles, and the battle plans used to conquer them. I'm your host, Carl Jacobi, combat vet, entrepreneur, resilience and performance coach, keynote speaker, husband and father. I've built, scaled, and exited multiple companies totaling over forty million in revenue. But here's what that highlight reel doesn't show you. Life has been smacking me in the face with a two by four since I was just five years old. Broken home. Constant chaos. No playbook. No safety net. Just grit. And if you're anything like me. You know, you've got another level in you, in your business, your career, your faith, your leadership. You're just not sure how to get there. That's exactly why we're here. Be sure to follow me for more great content, and check out my website success with Karl dot com. Now that's Karl with a K. Now let's get to work. All right. Welcome back for another episode. Today I have a guest that is rather unique and also brings an amazing story fifteen years on the front line with the Victoria Police. Now, if that ain't giving any indication, yes, he's on the other side of the world. In fact, in a green room, as we're just talking through, like, hey, you've got everything. You've got water, you've got your phone notifications, silence and so forth. Like, bro, who'll be calling me at five thirty in the morning? I'm like, good point and Context is three thirty Eastern Standard Time. So, uh, so you're are on the other side of the world. Uh, but your life in the previous season, uh, comprised of detective work, task force assignments, earned commendations, uh, a group citation, the ethical service medal, uh, and the National Medal for diligent Service to community safety. Then he traded the badge for boardrooms. And this things were can kind of get really well. Gets interesting. Helped establish two of Australia's anti corrupt bodies from the ground up. Holds an MBA from MIT where he studied alongside the founders of HubSpot and learned economics from a Nobel Prize winner, Masters from RMIT exclusive or executive Studies at Harvard. Today he runs grip six implementation out of a Geelong. Geelong, I think I said that. Yeah, you said that right. Sweet. Uh, I said it two different ways though. Yeah. That's okay. Uh, they're pretty much your first EOS implementer. Over sixty Australian businesses have run on a system that he teaches more than four hundred and fifty sessions, delivered industry ranges between construction and mining to healthcare, tech, finance, retail. Veterinarians co-founded the independent executives to close integrator Gap for EOS ranked companies worldwide runs the Integrator Academy and Global Integrator Awards. And when he's not in the office he's in or he's on the water coaching young men or young athletes at the Corio. Okay. Got you. I gotta have that Australian part of that accent in there. Yeah, yeah. Rowing club It difficult somewhere, but here's what you don't see on a resume. Thirty years ago, a car accident rerouted every single thing that followed, which we're going to dive into today. So, Murray, Miss Smith, my dude, welcome to the podcast, my man. Hey. Thanks, Kyle. You showed a bit of grit getting through that, mate. So with all those pronunciations, well done you. Thanks, man. This was definitely one of those, uh, uh, I would say uncomfortable. The harder things I had to do today. So check it off. Yeah, man. Thanks again for, for spending some time with us today and give us some insights. When I ran across your bio and, and, uh, read more about you, your man, your, your, your story is impressive. And this is one of the reasons why I love doing this podcast, because there is a true story to all of this, right? I think that's where a lot of people misread highlight reels, highlight reels, meaning, you know, we look on social media and everybody sees all these different things, right? The titles, the cars, the, you know, the houses, the money, the sales, you know, blah, blah, blah. But they don't see the pivotal moment that caused, right, that caused all that. So, Murray, man, if you don't mind, take me back to the early years before, uh, Geelong's, uh, EOS practice before m I t before executive suites. You're a young cop man in Victoria. What did that season look like for the day to day? Like this? Paint us this quick picture what your life looked like back then. Yeah. So. Thanks, Kyle. So, uh, interesting fact is, uh, when I finished what you would call high school, I, um, I got accepted into chemical engineering, and, um, I started doing it and in about two months in I went, yeah, this isn't going to work for me. And so I went home. And so eighteen went home and said to mum. Right. I'm, I'm not doing this. And she said, that's right. You better go out and get a job then. So after holding down a couple of, you know, basic jobs for a couple of months, I ended up, uh, in Victoria Police because I thought, well, kind of like helping people. So let's do this until I can sort out what I want to do. You know, in fifteen years later, I finally worked out what I wanted to do. But but in between, in between, I had a lot of fun along the way. But, um, and so essentially that's how I ended up in, in a police force. Um, and, uh, in terms of, you know, structure, it's slightly different than in the US. It's not local county or, you know, local city police, it's state. There is no other police. So the state police do the whole lot from, oh, wow. Um, so, so the breadth of opportunities that you get within that pretty broad. And, uh, so when I, when I went in, my idea was fun was, okay, well, let's see if we can go to the baddest place in Victoria and work there because that's going to be a lot of fun. And it took me a couple of years to get there. But as you mentioned earlier on the way, um, things happened, right? So yeah, uh, you, you get experience like I was out at, out of the police academy and after nine months, I was the most when I would go out in the road, it was pretty regular that I would be the most senior person on, on the, on the, what you would call a patrol car. We call it a divisional van. But, um, and so here I am nine months in and I'm teaching other people how to do the job. And we're all just fumbling around trying to work out how does this work? Right. And in the meantime, trying not to get killed. Um, and, um, I clearly successfully managed that, but, um. Yes, I think that's a success. In those early days. Yeah. In those early days. And going to your point earlier about getting to a car accident, you know, um, if I think back to that moment, like at that moment, I'd, you know, like most people at that age, I was about twenty one at the time, you know, thought I was like most people that age think you're pretty good at what you do. Um, and that was a stark reality hit that said, hey, maybe you're not as good as you think you are, right. And so, you know, that was that was on the way to a, to a job that was, um, pretty significant. There were some other, um, some of my colleagues were in a bit a bit of trouble and we had to get there quickly. And I was driving and driving through what you would call downtown in Melbourne because I was I was in Melbourne at the time. Um in the city itself working. And I essentially just collided with a very, very large truck. And um, you know, when you meet something that large and you're in something smaller, you don't win. And yeah, that's true. That is true. Um, so, so it was pretty significant. And, you know, I ended up, um, we got taken off to hospital and all that sort of stuff. And initially they thought my partner was more injured than me, which I thought true, but as it turned out, I was more injured than her. And, um, so I was off work for six months with, um, uh, fractured kneecaps and, and, you know, various other injuries and also developed a blood clot in that time. And so that was fun. Back to hospital for a period of time while that sorted out. And of course I was on medication, so I couldn't work because if I got if I started bleeding at work, it, you know, it was going to be a problem because I was on this blood thinning drugs. So yeah. And that's how I ended up. But from, you know, and I'm sure we'll talk about, you know, that was a cornerstone of, of what got me to where I am today. But, you know, when I did return to work, fun fact, I was back at work for about a month and I got into a pretty large brawl in, um, in a bar where I turned up with, um, uh, my partner who was a sergeant at the time. And we were standing at the front and there was two hundred people just going for it in this bar. And we and the sergeant turned to me. He was very, you know, been around for a long time, said Murray. We're not going in there. And I said, yeah, good. And, uh. so we're standing, we're standing at the front waiting. And, you know, like I've just got back and it's like, oh, and, and so we're standing at the front waiting for other, you know, reinforcements to turn up so we can get control. And the owner runs out and says, oh, my security guard's lying on the floor and they're kicking him in the head. And it's like, okay, so now we don't have a choice, right? So you come back to this grit factor and, you know, so now you're in a position where you're feeling, uh, pretty frightened and it's natural to feel it. But then it's like, okay, well, I've got a, I've got to compartmentalize that, put that in a corner. And the sergeant said, well, we've got to go. And I said, righto, we're in. And so once you're in, you're one hundred percent committed, right? Yeah. You just, you've just got no choice. It's not like you're fifty percent in. You've got to be one hundred percent in. So we walk in and within the first minute had my arm broken in. um, uh, by a couple of blokes and you know, it got pretty, got pretty serious when a couple of them tried to bloodthinners at this time too. Right. This is just come off it. I just come off the blood thinners. So this was like I had six months off and now I'm back at work a month in and, um, yeah, arm broken in the first, you know, minute of this fight. And again, it's a choice, right? It's like, oh, well, this isn't working out too well, but yeah, keep going. Right. So because now, now, now it's on and um, you know, it got a bit worse, um, with people trying to grab because like in the US we, we're armed. Um, and so people were a couple of, a couple of guys were trying to grab my firearm and pulling it out of the holster and it was, um, but anyway, I won't go into the details about how I dealt with that, but let's just say that, um, A couple people weren't feeling the best. Pretty quickly after that. Imagine not. Anyway, we managed to get through that, but I had my arm broken, so. And I worked out the shift because I didn't actually realize it was broken. Um, it felt sore and I thought, oh, that's no good. But. Right. And then by the end of the shift, I thought, oh, this is really starting to hurt. So, you know, off to the hospital. And, um, yeah, in a cast for another, I think it was about six weeks. So been back for weeks in a cast for six weeks at work, but can't go out on the road because, you know, not going on the road with the cast, but you just stay in the station and do what you need to do their duty. And then fun fact come back and, uh, on night shift, uh, and then, um, uh, up in what is, I don't know what you would call it in the US, but these are the like high rise public housing type, um, uh, area, um, low socio economic high crime area. Yeah. And one of our other units was, you know, chasing a car thief. And he jumped out of the car and he was running. So we were up there and I was working with, um, a couple of other people. And so we see him running around in the park and so out of the car chasing him, not feeling awesome because I'm still not that fit after coming off a couple of injuries. Right. So yeah, um, end up chasing this bloke and, you know, adrenaline gets the better of you and so does so does competitiveness. Right? Yeah. You want to win. That's true. Yes. I'm going to catch this guy. So we caught him and um in in this stairwell in this high rise. And I at that point I was by myself and it was, um, you know, he clearly didn't want to come to the police station. I clearly wanted him to. So he turns into a fight and in this stairwell, having a fair, a fair fight. Well, when I say fair, I don't mean fair because I wasn't playing fair. But I mean, it was a it was going on for a decent while. And, you know, there's blood flying everywhere. Most of it is. Um and, you know, I've got cuts on my hands because we've been jumping fences and all this sort of stuff. And um, anyway, so I get him under control and then a couple other people turn up and walking him back to the car and he turns to me and he goes and he just says to me, well. I won't tell you what he said. I'll, I'll take out the language. But he just said, well, you're, you're in a lot of trouble. And I said, oh, why's that mate? I said, it looks like it's really you that's in trouble. Yeah. And he goes and he just says to me, well, I've got, I've got Aids. And I'm looking down at my hands and I'm covered in his blood and I've got cuts all over my hands from, from fighting this bloke. And so off to hospital I go um to get the various jabs that you get to sort of Minimize that sort of thing. And um, but then I've got. And then so we, we took blood from him. Well a nurse did, we didn't. I took blood from him at an earlier point. And so they tested him. He didn't actually have Aids. But what he did have was hepatitis C, which is kind of you know, it's it's more contagious. But and it also, if it gets into your liver, it's pretty, pretty significant. Yeah. And so, you know, so then I, then I'm still working for the. And it takes three months at that point to work out whether or not you've, you've, you've caught hepatitis C, so you're sitting around for three months waiting to get these tests to work out whether you've got hep C. So, so that was, you know, within a year, those three. So I came back to work one month in broken arm that fixes up, get back out on the road. You know within a couple of weeks back on the road. That's crazy. So yeah, I mean, that was a pretty traumatic time. But it was like you talk about seasons. That was that was probably winter I reckon. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. As you're explaining this, I'm just like, you know, usually you could probably expect to hear something like over a couple years span, right? Um, you know, getting in a, in a vehicle accident and breaking your arm because, you know, uh, a two hundred person brawl. Uh, then you get into a situation where, you know, a plot twist. Right. Um, yeah, you know, I don't know. I'm not really in trouble. I mean, yeah, I may, you know, be in trouble with the law, but you've got a bigger problem, mister. Yeah. Uh, you know, that's a heck of a initiation to the force, man. Yeah, that was like, even, uh, that was year two and three. And then. And then I did finally get to the place where I wanted to go to where it was, you know, the Badlands And um, at that time it's a bit different now that the area that, that, that was um, pretty significant. And that's where, you know, all the fun and I had a lot of fun apart from those incidents at the other places I worked in those first two or three years. But when I got there, it was just like a whole new world. It was like, uh, you know, there was a time where at that police station where, you know, um, the locals decided they didn't really like the police. So, you know, petrol bomb through the back door of the police station, burnt a third of the police station down, which is kind of which was, which was pretty funny because what was happening was when the fire was on, I wasn't there at the time. I had just finished shift, but, um, the guys that were on, they were grabbing their paperwork and throwing it in the fire so they could have this excuse about, oh, no, no, no, that all got lost in the fire. Oh, hey, my dog ate it. It's, you know, the fire ate it. Oh my gosh, I can actually picture that actually. Yeah, it was pretty full on. Like that was a place where people had to turn up regularly to the police station to form of bail, where they would have to sign on. And they were like, some of them weren't the smartest or the sharpest tool in the shed. You know, they'd turn up and stolen cars. So you'd you got I mean, you come into the police station, you've come in a stolen car, like, come on. Right. There's all this sort of stuff going on. That's crazy. Yeah. So it was, it was good fun. Yeah, yeah. Good fun. That's what I explain it, that's for sure. Well, to your point about, you know, like you can either, you know, what's that book gap or the game, you know, it's kind of like, yeah, um, you can either look at it as a gap or a game, right? And that is true. So and it's true. It's kind of like, well, you can laugh about it or you can cry And crying is not really an option because it doesn't get you anywhere. But no, that's a good point. In fact, ironically, my previous guest that I was telling you earlier in the green room I was just on with um, is a little bit about that. You know, in fact, her question for you is going to be, you know, and, and as I said, previous episodes so far, every question that my guests have asked, the next guest has been spot on. Um, because some of that is these turning points that we have in life, right? So yeah, you know, for you, you know, you know, professional, young, professional, uh, you know, you're a serious car accident and so much change from that moment, right? Yeah, yeah. And you know, it's this constant, constant, constant, you know, and. This is a pivotal moment, right? And so, um, your body is wracked, you know, your, your identity is tied to a job that requires a working body, right? Yeah. So in that season, man, in that period, what did you tell yourself was going to happen next? Yeah. So yeah. Great question. So it was fascinating that when I was sort of lying in hospital beds and whatnot and thinking to myself, I really love what I do. Like I didn't even know what day I got paid. I like people say, oh, it's pay day today. And I go, oh, is it okay? It was kind of like, that was kind of I was living that life. It was just like, this is like, this is, this is fun. Like, why would you want to do anything else? And of course, you know, that's a stupid question. But at the, at the moment in time, it was like, this is really good fun. But I did think to myself, um, this is really good fun. I love doing it, but what am I going to do if I can't do it? Exactly. And, and, and so that's, that started the process of saying, well, I better get a qualification. so that there's a. That's when I applied to go back to university. You would call college. Um, okay. And start studying. So I did an undergraduate in criminal justice administration, which was fine. And that sort of was directly related to what I was doing, but I was doing that part time. So I kept working and I was doing shift work. And then when I wasn't doing shift work, I was either, you know, part of my life outside of that was going to university, which was fantastic because for two reasons. One was getting a qualification that sort of was making sense to me and sort of allowing me to open up other opportunities should I need to. Makes sense. But equally, you know, when you're, when you're in a, in a, in that sort of environment, police environment or regimented environment, there is a significant weight of how people think and they all genuinely think a particular way. Not all. But there's a there's a volume of people, you know, that cultural sort of thing. And by going to university, I was actually exposed. It was I didn't realize it when I'd made the application. I didn't actually see this as an outcome. But, um, you were in a room full of people, you know, like I was twenty one, twenty two by then. And so students were a bit younger than me, but some were a bit older as well. And it was like I was getting exposed to people challenging the way I was thinking as much as learning the whatever you learn at university. So that. So I was lucky enough to, to say, hey, my perspective was changing during that time in terms of saying, well, you're not always right. You're not always. There's other ways things can get done. Yeah. And, and, and people were outwardly challenged the way you would think, which was great. Um, uh, but, you know, and so that started that journey of, you know, continuous learning. And from there that went on to a master's program. So a postgraduate program in human resource management and industrial relations. Now in Australia, industrial relations or what's now known as workplace relations, you know, all the law around that is, is a bit different to the US. Um, you know, it's um, in some ways it's, it's a lot more difficult to navigate. Um, but so it was good to learn that, but of course that just kept me learning. And then from there, the, it started like in terms of when I was doing my postgraduate study was like, well, uh, I wonder if I could hack studying overseas because I was because here we read all these case studies and whatnot that come out of Harvard or wherever they come out of. And you think I was starting to think to myself, well, why? Why wouldn't naively. Why? Why couldn't I go and study at those universities where these textbooks and case studies are coming out of. Um, not knowing what that journey would look like, we often we rarely ever do. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah. So yeah. And then that led to, um, studying overseas at a much later journey. But um, yeah, that's where it started. So there was that, that started, but from that, you know, I can trace so many things from that moment where I said, well, what am I going to do if I can't do this? It's like, well, from there, you know, if I didn't go to university, uh, and do all my study, I wouldn't have met my wife. Um, uh, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have changed careers in terms of moving into, um, you know, what was then into what was a government organization to, to, you know, restructure and do, set up organizations I wouldn't have done that, wouldn't have ended up being an EOS implementer. All these things that come off this particular moment in time that at the time, you actually don't realize the the pivotal nature of it. So now I look at at things like MIT and I think, well, that is a cornerstone of my life, but I never would have had that cornerstone if at a very young age I didn't think, well, what am I going to do with the rest of my life if I can't do this? That's a good point. Yeah, I think I think a lot of people can resonate with that. Right? It is, you know, using these pivotal moments. But when we look back, you know, we weren't ready beforehand for these pivotal moments, right? To steer us in a different direction. Yeah. Um, yeah, I again, ironically, uh, uh, Carly pimpin, uh, her, you know, that was, I guess I was just talking about, you know, talking about these, uh, these pivotal moments, these, these, uh, boulders, if you will, where we go through these events. And it's the outcome of these events where it brings on the next chapter, the next version that, uh, we can choose to be grateful for because it does give us into or puts us in another environment where this school, it's a career, it's a business, a relationships, finances. It allows us to climb into, you know, another level, right? Um, you know, that, uh, we look back, it's like, man, I never would have done X, Y, and Z if it wasn't for this moment. Right. Like you, you look back, right? You know, when you raised your hand to join the force, uh, you know, looking back or, you know, if you were, you know, I think you said you're in your early twenties, you never could have forecasted you being in a, in an accident Then getting into a two hundred person brawl, right? Then shortly after that, have your life threatened yet again. Um, you could never have predicted that. And, uh, but, you know, fast forward, it's because of that, that, that and plus a lot more is why you're here where you are, right? Yeah. So yeah, sometimes I think that reflection is really important. Carl. Yeah. I agree with you one hundred percent. And that's something I've been really cognizant or really, uh, intentional on lately in this time of my life is being intentional or being more aware of the season changes, right? Instead of asking or instead of asking why me? Or why, why is this happening? Ask what can I learn from this? Or what is the message that I need to get from this two by four moment? Two two by four, meaning I'm about to get slapped in the face with this. Whatever. This thing is coming. What can I take away from this? Is it, you know, a pivot I need to make in a relationship? Is it a career pivot for you? It was a career pivot. Yeah. Numerous ones in fact. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So and those career pivots are interesting in themselves. Like. The journey that led me to those was more about I was studying at the time. I was really enjoying what I was doing. I was, I, I'd, um, I'd done a few interesting things along the way as I was studying, such as, you know, being in a drug task force, which was great fun, you know, clearly didn't look like what I looked like to you today. Very different appearance at that point in time. Same. I can relate to that. I think a lot of us can. Yeah, yeah. Um, and, you know, did some interesting work in the place I was talking about earlier. And then ended up being a detective in various locations. But as I was doing that, I was studying and. On that journey of part time study, and I was just thinking, there's, there's got to be more to it than this. I was kind of outgrowing the roles I was in, and I wasn't feeling bitter about it. I was just thinking, there's, there's got to be more to this. I was really lucky that when when I was at the fifteen year mark, it was like, well, I wonder what. And so my wife showed me this advertisement for a job at the time, and she said, oh, why don't you put in for this? And it was an operations manager role at a regulator at state level. And I thought, oh yeah, alright, I'll put in for it because that'll tell me what I'm missing for any for the future promotion, you know, that I might go for within the police force. I thought, oh yeah, this would be a good experience just to go through and go, oh yeah, you need to do Maybe you need to fill this gap or whatever it was. Anyway, so I set the interview and I and they come back and say, oh, do you want the job? So and then, you know, again, that moment in time where, oh, well, hang on. I didn't really expect to get the job. And here it is. And so I actually took the job, you know, and not really knowing what the future would look like. And, uh, and then from there did all this restructuring and learned all this stuff about organizational change and all that. So that was the first pivot. But yeah, as I was, even as I was doing that, it was like, this is like working in government organizations. It's, you know, I'm pretty sure this is universal. They're not really action orientated. That is universal. I'm pretty confident of that. And, and it was very frustrating. But I was learning stuff and that's fine. And it was at that point that I thought, let's scratch this itch about whether I can study overseas. And I thought, well, the first step of that has to be just going overseas to a university, work out whether or not, you know, just get a taste, understand whether this is something that you want to do and understand whether it's something you can do. So that's when I thought, well, I'll do an executive program, you know, stupid me in Australia think, oh, well, yeah, look, I'll do an executive program at a university where, oh yeah, I'll apply, I'll apply to do an executive program at Harvard. Yeah. Okay. Sure. No worries. We'll do that. And so, you know, apply. Yeah, it's an executive program. So the entry isn't that, you know, rigorous per se. But anyway, yeah, I went and did this three week course at Harvard University and I came away and it was great fun, really enjoyed it, met some really interesting people, really inspiring place to be in terms of learning and all that sort of stuff. And I came back thinking, yeah, I can do this. So then when I came back, I thought, oh yeah, all right, well, I'll apply, I'll apply to go to Harvard. Why not? Somebody has to go there. And so I came back and I applied, I went through the process and I got waitlisted and I thought, oh, well, maybe that's it over. And, and I didn't actually get in. And then I thought, no, I'll give it one more go. But then I expanded my horizons and thought, well, what other institutions would I like to go to? And then I thought, well, MIT sounds good. Yeah. So like, okay, so we'll apply to that. So I applied to both Harvard and MIT and you know, woe be me. There's no need to shed any tears. But, um, I got accepted into both and I had to make a decision about whether I went to Harvard or MIT, and I chose MIT because I knew coming back to you, you know, the whole purpose of this podcast, I went to MIT because I knew it would be harder for me because what I was I was going to I was going to be doing an MBA there, and I was going to be doing stuff about finance, accounting, stuff that I was pretty shallow on. And I thought, well, let's get better at that. And so yeah, that's why I ended up at MIT. So I moved over to the States and lived there while I was doing my MBA in a program called the Sloan Fellows Program. And I was, I wasn't actually in the same class as the people you mentioned earlier. Um, they were a couple of years before me doing, uh, HubSpot and so forth, but they would come back and talk to us and tell us what their, you know, and teach us things. And, you know, so former class people like, um, Alan Mulally, the former CEO of Ford, went through the Sloan Fellows program. So he would come back and say, okay, you're the CEO of Ford, you got six months of cash. What are you going to do? You know, it was all those sort of scenarios. And so, so that was the and that's, you know, again, that was the next pivot. And then the final well, not the final pivot. The pivot up until now, I suppose, is a better way to describe it is yeah. Coming back from that and then becoming an implementer. That's awesome man. One thing I want to dig into for a second, um, is you made mention that you intentionally chose to do the harder thing, right? You intentionally chose to challenge yourself. And I think a lot of people, um, you know, I think they would do the latter, right? They would actually probably have done something, you know, especially when you choose between two Ivy League prestigious schools. I think MIT's Ivy League. Right? I think it is. No, it's not, but that's okay. We keep stirring them everyone else about it. Well, there's still a prestigious school. MIT is still a prestigious school. Right. But, you know, two prestigious schools, one's Ivy, one's not. But still, you know, it's very well known. And you chose you elected to go down the harder path that because you knew it was going to challenge you and help you grow. And despite the uncomfort feeling, or, you know, despite being uncomfortable, you still said, yep, let's go. Um, what? Walk through the person right now that's probably listening to you. Like, are you nuts? Like, why would you do that? Like, why would you do that? Yeah. So, um. You know, going, uh, going to MIT was all about just weighing up where, where were my strengths and where were my weaknesses. And my weaknesses were clearly around, you know, if I think about all the things I was doing at that stage, I felt pretty confident around leadership, um, having been tested in various environments and leading a lot of because by that stage, I, I kind of experienced a fair bit in terms of leadership at executive level and senior management level in in Victoria police as a sergeant and all this sort of stuff that had gone through. So I felt pretty confident about that. I mean, it wasn't that I couldn't learn more. Certainly I could. Um, but I felt comfortable with that sort of space leadership and management, particularly after doing my postgraduate study in human resource management and stuff like that. Makes sense. Um, but what I wasn't confident in at all was the other side of the equation, which was all that numbers in terms of, you know, finance and just numbers in general. And it was like, yeah, well, if anyone's going to test you around that, it's going to be at MIT. And so, um, and so I just thought, well, what's the point of moving at that stage? My whole family across the other side of the world and doing something that's, um, easier. I wouldn't say easy, but easier. Not as challenging. Right. It's not worth the time and investment. and there is an investment financially and so forth in that. Sure. And it's like, well, I'm going to get the best bang for my buck, and the best bang for my buck is learning about stuff I don't know. And, and, and that's, that's, that's how that decision was made. It sounds pretty basic, but it was as simple as that. It was just like, learn stuff you don't know, don't, don't surround yourself with things that are awesome that you might have some idea about. And it didn't just stop through that, um, that moment in time. Carl. It was also I kept getting tested right through that, that period of time. I can recall turning up on the first day. And you know, everyone, the whole cohort was in the, in a classroom. And, and I was thinking, you know, there was people that had been involved in at that stage they'd been working for, um, I don't even know what the government agency was, but, you know, that helped refinance, um, Afghanistan and all these sort of things. And I'm sitting there going, Mhm. Why am I in this room? How did I get here? I. I'm the dumbest person in the room. Right. And and, you know, months after that, I remember, you know, I was doing all these finance and accounting courses and I was just sitting in at the place I was staying. There was a study room and I was sitting in that study room and I was just thinking, man, I've got no idea what I'm doing. Why am I here? And I was constantly tested, thinking I could have gone down the road because Harvard's down the road. I could have gone down the road and had a much easier life. And I was really challenging. Um, and then after a while, I just got better at it just through working harder. Yeah. And, you know, I would see my colleagues and they would be, they would have had finance most of their career and they're just ripping out the numbers like it's no big deal. And I'm thinking, how did how did that. And like, so it was really hard from that perspective, but I'm sure everyone was challenged in that course. It was just that was the way I was challenged. Others would have been challenged in other ways. Yeah, that's a good point. And something I want to highlight here that you mentioned earlier, I think it was on your bio, but you kind of segmented on, uh, you know, let's kind of walk through this journey for a bit, right? You went from a cop to a law student or, you know, a student at MIT to pursue your MBA. Um, each one of those seasons, right, required different version of Murray. Right? Yeah. Um, in that season with MIT, you you like you just mentioned you thought you didn't belong, right? Yeah. Who did you actually think you were right and was it was the imposter syndrome or was the imposter feeling about MIT. Right. Because that right there, I think a lot of people can resonate with is imposter syndrome. Or was it really about every identity shift before that, finally catching up to that point. Yeah, initially, it definitely was like, how did I end up in this room? So I was thinking, to your point, I did think maybe I don't belong in this room because this is some pretty switched on dudes and I've got no idea what I'm doing. And but then it was like, you know, um, at that time I, I'd watched, um, a video or, um, uh, a fellow by the name of, um, uh, Brent Gleason who's over there in the States and he, um, you know, like, uh, he'd come out of the Navy Seals and he was always big about saying, you're always in the fight, you're always in the fight. That was what their kind of mantra was about. So I was kind of at that time, I was just thinking, well, I'm here. And it kind of took me back to. And that resonated with me because it kind of took me back to, you know, much earlier days in my career. It's like, well, yeah, you are always in the fight, so get on with it. And so that was, that was. So imposter syndrome went after I, you know, had those challenging moments that early on in the program, it was like, well, I'm here. They selected me. I, I put an application in, they said, I'm good enough to be here. So own that and get on with it. And so that was, that's what happened. So whenever I was sitting in an exam or whatnot, and I was thinking, man, I've got no idea what they're asking for here, I would just go, nah. Always in the fight. Just write stuff down, write stuff down. So it was that's that, that was that was the attitude I took. I just thought, well, I'm here. And so and I think always in the fight resonated with me because I'd been in so many fights. And I thought, yeah, that is true. That's very well appropriate. You. Yeah, you. You decide whether you win or lose. You know, sometimes you may not decide that, but the majority of the time it's about you. So it's like, get on with it. And then, um, and that also resonated me from, you know, my sporting days with rowing and so forth. It's like, it hurts when you row, it hurts a lot. And it, the only way it stops hurting is if you stop. But if you stop, you're letting others down and you don't finish the race. And that's not acceptable. So you just keep going. So that's good. I yeah, peer pressure is a bitch isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So. Well, you know, strangely enough, there is a story and it was well publicized here in Australia at the Olympics. Uh, a girl in the Australian eight did stop rowing at the Olympics. And that went down. Not particularly well, uh, as you could imagine. So, um, and it and it destroyed life. So, uh, yeah, you it's about what effect you have on others if you stop. Yeah. That's that's true. That's it. You probably those are listener watching. You know, it doesn't have to be a sports team, right? It could be a family. It could be your workplace. It could be your business. Um, yeah. There's always somebody depending on you. You may not be, you may not immediately know it, but it could be future down the road, uh, that somebody needed you, right? You know, it could be you that needs you down the road. Yeah, yeah, that's a great point to one hundred percent. I agree, man. Um, you, you mentioned earlier, uh, I want to highlight this because this is something I, I really believe in that, uh, the one system you attribute your success to is this consistency beats motivation, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tell that to, yeah. I tell that to my I the OS businesses all the time. Yeah I agree. Um, so talk to the person out there. Right. What do you mean by this? Consistency beats motivation. You know, when you wake up, how does that rule actually play out in your day? Yeah. So, you know, uh, to be clear, that's clearly not, um, a quote that I came up with or anything like that. It's been around for a long time, used by lots of people, but the principle of it is true, right? Um, is about, you know, um, you can be motivated to go to the gym, you can be motivated to go to work, whatever it is on a Friday. Hey, it's Friday. I'd love to go to the gym like, oh yeah, great. I'm motivated. Ooh, awesome. But that's not where you win. You win when you don't have that motivation and you turn up anyway. Agree. Agree. And so, and if you really want to separate yourself from the pack, it's doing that right. It's doing it when you don't want to do it because that's what your competitors are doing, whether it's in business. I don't I don't want to have this conversation with this staff member because it's going to be untidy. It's going to be messy, and I don't want to have to deal with them. But I know they're costing me money, but I'd rather not because that conversation is going to be terrible. Right? So they don't do it. Good point. Because they're not motivated for it. That's the true business. Champions will go, you know what? This is costing me money. I'm going to do something about it. Right? Yeah. And so the amount of times you run into businesses, I'm sure you've seen this where they say, oh, you know, Murray's a problem. He's a real problem child. And I say, oh, how long has he been a problem for? Oh, about twelve months, huh? Yeah. Okay. And we haven't done anything about it. No. And that goes to your point about motivation and consistency. Consistency would say you deal with poor performers as quickly as you can. Motivation would tell us that we only do it when we feel ready to do it. Oh. that's so good, I agree. That hits on another cylinder that I constantly see. It's easy to be a champion on the easy days, right? But it's on a difficult days where champions are, are, are forged, you know. Yeah. Whether they got a good night's sleep or not, they still show up. Whether they, you know, had a bad day, they still show up, you know. Um, and that's so true, man. I love your perspective on that. You worked with some very dysfunctional executive teams. I want to you mentioned that for a moment. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I, I've, I've been in government work as well. Both sides have been a contractor as well as, you know, on a government side and as well as some other corporations and, uh, and which I thankful for because it really gave me the experience of who I don't want to be. Right. Yeah. Um, yeah. But you said you're very, you're happy to discuss how to navigate and still get outcomes, right. So, you know, give me an example or give the audience an example was what was the dysfunction? Um, and what did most people miss and what to get as a result of it. So this comes. Yeah. So a lot of this sort of experience was, um, before I was an EOS implementer. So an executive and, and senior management level was like, you would be in teams where it's just about horse trading or it's just the culture is what it is and you can't control that, whatever it might be. Yeah. So for me, it was all about understanding, well, if this is the environment I'm in and how much of this environment do I control? Mhm. And when you work out well, what are the what are the boundaries of what I control? It's then saying, well, let's deal with that. Let's deal with what's inside those boundaries. So, you know, you would have a team. So, in my experiences they would either number between fifty and two hundred, whatever it might have been. And it was like, well, how do I make it? So what's inside those, inside those boundaries? How do I make sure that this is, this is operating to the best effect that I can for that area? And then outside of that, it's kind of like, yeah, okay. Yeah, let's play the horse trading. Let's, let's, let's, let's, you know, play the game. Yeah. Okay. This is awesome. Everyone knows it's not working out really well, but nobody really wants to talk about that. And when you do, people get offended. So you just go, well, I can't change that. I'm not sure I want to change that. I'm not going to rage against the machine. Here's what I can do here. Here's what I can do, and here's what I will do. So I'm going to set my goals and my my idea of success within what that looks like. And then and then it's about, you know, applying those, those, those leadership skills to understand, well, what, how, how do I get the best out of people that are around me? What, what, what environment do they need? And what, what can I, what can I do to create that without being influenced too heavily from outside of that? Now there's always an influence and sometimes you just have to, you know, suck it up and say, well, that's, that's, that's the way it is. And that's, that's the cards we've been dealt with. So let's just deal with those. But when you can, it's about just, just using the controls that you have to, to create a space that allows people to do what they can do. And it may not always be a success in itself, but at least you're having a go. And, and so that's what that's how I'd approach that. And in, in terms of that, you know, that that leadership piece for people, I don't profess to be a great leader at all or anything like that, but I've certainly seen what's good and bad along the way. And some things that were important are about, you know, setting expectations. You hear that a lot, but it's also about understanding what other people's expectations are of you. Yeah. As much as you know. So when I would take on a new role, it's like, um, at senior management or executive level, it would always be I'd sit down with my direct reports individually and say, okay, here's what I expect in terms of how we're going to conduct our business. And, and like, everyone does that, right? And then I would turn the tables and say, what are your expectations of me? Mhm. That's hard to ask. That's, that's hard for a lot of people to, to ask that, you know, hey, what are your expectations of me? And to hear your honest answer. Right. Yeah. Well, well, when you say honest answers are great, but they're also very revealing. Right? Yeah. And that's true. I can recall one conversation where the person provided me their expectations And they hadn't shifted their expectations from their previous, um, executive, and they just thought I was going to roll in and do exactly the same thing. And that wasn't going to be the case appointed him. Yeah. Well, it was, but it was, it was really good because it was really clear that our expectations weren't aligned. And, um, and without having to have those difficult conversations, that person made a choice to, it was best that they move on to their next role. And it was like, makes sense to me. Yeah. You know, that was pretty much the conversation. I don't know, most people expect a bit more, you know, empathy, I suppose, around this. Oh, don't go, you're great. You're fantastic. And for me, it was like when, when that was said to me, I just said, well, yeah, that makes sense to me. Mhm. And it was like, it was like, it makes sense. I think they were a bit shocked by yeah, by that sort of bluntness of that. Yep. Great. Fantastic. Yeah. I imagine they probably expected a different response. And I think it's it's the whole classic pattern interrupt. Right. You interrupted the pattern because they expected to hear something and you're like, oh, nope, I'm going to flip the switch on you. Um, that's a great perspective, man. Uh, fast forward to today. You know, you touched on this, right? You win grip six, you're, uh, Geelong's first and most experienced EOS implementer. Uh, you've got independent executives in the background. Like you've, you're doing a ton of work in EOS space. So, um, for those, you know, real quickly that are not like us, what does that mean? Talk to, you know, what does EOS mean? What is this whole thing? They talk to the audience about that. If you don't mind. Yeah. So EOS is the entrepreneurial operating system. It comes out of the States, out of Detroit. Um, Gino Wickman wrote this book called traction many years ago, but prior to that, he would he simply came up with cobbling together iOS. So what it is, is about how to get what you want from your business in a way that makes sense. And by that, it's just by applying simple and effective tools to your business. But be clear. Simple doesn't always mean easy. But no, they're effective. Um, and it's about. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's just about being really clear on what, what your vision is, which is great. And, you know, everyone's one hundred percent aligned. Everyone says that the second part is really about traction and making sure that you're seeing that being executed and people being held accountable for that. And the final part is just being healthy where, you know, you're having the conversations that others aren't prepared to have now at a very high level, that sounds pretty simple. And it goes, yeah, but everyone does that. But it's how you do it, right? It's about it's the focus on execution, right? Because everyone has got values and visions and whatever, and they slap them up on walls or on screensavers and say, this is what we're all about. And then nothing happens. Yep. And, and so, and the only time those things are referred to are in annual reports or some sort of glossy brochure about how awesome we are as a business. iOS is about. Yeah. Yeah. This is really about well, you want to be that. Well, let's go, let's be that and let's see what that looks like. And then holding each other accountable and then driving a system through that makes that happen. And then delivering to that through, you know, things like making sure you've got the right people in the right seats, making sure you're looking at your numbers every day and understand what the numbers tell you rather than run on gut instinct. It's about being able to solve issues rather than just let them sit around for months. It's about having your processes documented that makes sense. It's about having traction and cadence in your business where you can see things happening and you're holding yourself to account, to a rhythm, to the point of motivated and consistency, consistently having a rhythm of which you are checking in and making sure you're doing what you say you're doing and moving to the next stage, whatever that looks like. And that vision piece that I spoke about earlier is really important. Like tell people where you're going and how you're going to get there and where you are now. Otherwise, they actually don't know how they contribute to that. So that's essentially it. But it's about making that happen for businesses. Like getting what they want. And most implementers that I know are pretty blunt about that. It's like, okay, let's put that up. Right. That's what you want to be. Are you sure about that? And they go, yeah, that's what we want to be. It's like, be careful what you wish for because that's where we're going, right? Um, and then it's just about pushing them to that point and giving them the tools that they can do it. And then success for me is really about them using iOS as how they run their business without me. So getting them to a point where they've got the skill and capability to use iOS without without me. Interesting man. So walk us through this, right? Because, you know, I'm picturing picturing this young, young, young man in his early twenties cop, you know, walking this through. Right. So today you've done over four hundred and fifty sessions, sixty plus businesses running on iOS because of you, right. So why did you plant your flag there? What is it about us specifically that made you say, yeah, this is it. This is what I'm doing and dedicate the rest of your life to this. Yeah. So this was all about when I came back from America after studying, I was in an interim executive role. And it was it was it was paying the bills. Right. It was it wasn't awesome, but it was paying the bills. Yeah. And, um, a friend of mine handed me a copy of the book traction? Of course, I've just finished my MBA within the last twelve months and I read traction and I went, mm, this is this is pretty cool. This is every, every way a business should operate, should operate this way. And he said, why don't you become an implementer? I think you'd be really good at it. And again, I was thinking to myself, well, what could I teach? Because I've got no idea about this, you know, and imposter syndrome kicking in big time. Yeah. So it's like. And then I thought, well, what I can teach them is, you know, I've got all these relevant qualifications. I clearly couldn't go out by myself and say, hey, pick me because I'm, you know, I can help you. But this framework gave me an ability, gave me a vehicle. And I was looking at it thinking, yeah, I can, I can, I could do that. I can teach people about structure, about discipline, about accountability, about all this sort of stuff and the gaps that I've got with that, even though that I come out of MIT are filled by this framework. So let's go, let's, let's do this now. The added bonus was. So I decided to do it and I went and did boot camp and all that sort of stuff and then became an implementer. But at that point in Australia, as a guy called Daniel Davis over here who who brought iOS to Australia. So there was only about I can't even remember the number, but I can remember we would go to that. We would meet up every ninety days and when I would go to meet up, we'd essentially all the implementers in Australia would meet around a table because it was only that there was a small number of us. But what I could see was that this system wasn't going away, that there was nothing. There was nothing that would be in it that would become redundant. All the principles and processes were whether it was now, whether it's in one hundred years, made sense to run a great business. So I thought, well, why not get on, get on the wave and see where this takes me. Right? Yeah. So that's right. Um, and now when you go to meet up quarterly here in Australia. Like there's a there's a lot more people like there's, you know, it's not like us where there's about eight hundred odd eight hundred and fifty odd implementers. But in Australia there's about or the Asia Pacific region, there's about forty or fifty. And there's like people in there that have done incredible things. Like there's a guy that I went through boot camp with and he's, you know, he was the only guy in Japan that was doing it. And he said, oh, I'll do this. So, you know, um, and he's, he's out of Detroit as well. But, um, so, you know, whenever you think, oh, I, it's so hard for me, there's always someone else that's traveling a harder road. So yeah, yeah, there's, there's always somebody else's harder that are hard. That's harder than yours. Right? Yeah. So, so that's, that's how I got into iOS. And, and then from there, it's just, what do I do it? Why do I commit myself to it? Well, it's all about it's kind of a full circle moment. It's kind of. I'm just coming back to help people in a different way. Yeah, right. Because, you know, you think about the amount of hours you spend at work and it's called work. So let's not let's not get away from the concept that it's work. Like if you think it's, oh, you know, there's parts of it that you don't like. Even when I said, you know, I loved what I was doing, I didn't know what day I got paid. There was parts of that job that I hated. Sure. Um, absolutely. And, and equally, there was there's parts about what I do now that don't really float my boat, but that's life, right? So it's work. So if you're going to spend that amount of time at work, let's try and maximize your time there. Right? Yeah. And make the most of it. And that's what iOS is about. It's just a force multiplier and making things work a bit better at work. That's awesome man. So, you know, for, for the listeners out there, specifically those that are in Australia or anywhere else, you know, that's listening have been running the same quarter twelve times in a row or, you know, the founder, the visionary founder. Anywhere that needs an integrator to keep them from burning out. Because right now, especially, and I've been down that path. They need somebody, uh, you know, to get them out of the rubble. Where do they start? You know, in the, you know, where do they find you? Where do they start with you? What's the best way to get in contact with you? Yeah. So in terms of iOS implementation, the easiest way to do that is just put in Murray Smith, EOS implementer into, you know, AI, Google, whatever you use nowadays. And I'll come up in one form or another. And of course, you know, you've got my details and I'm sure we'll circulate those as needed, but that's the best way to get in touch with me, you know, and you can always, um, you'll find that if you put EOS implementer Murray Smith or EOS worldwide, Murray Smith, it'll take you to a web page where where you can get in contact with me direct, and it'll also have some various material on there to help you understand what iOS is all about. But equally, there's videos on there from me and testimonials and whatnot, so you can get a sense of what I do. Yeah, that's cool man. I'll definitely be dropping all the links that we have access to. Uh, of course. Uh, yeah, of course that, uh, she's absolutely amazing. So she'll be dropping all links in the show notes and so forth. So, um, where they could connect with you. So. All right, so as we wrap up, I've got a couple of rapid fire questions. Uh, I know we could talk forever on all this stuff. Yeah, sure. So in this season of life that you're in, Marie, what is your definition of grit? Yeah. So my definition of grit is really about it's really about, you know, what you're about to go into. You know, it might be really hard. and you actually don't know what the outcome will be. And you do it anyway. Do it anyways. Love it. Love it. As you're talking through that, Maria, I'm envisioning that fight, that two hundred person brawl, right? You know what's about to go down. You don't want to do it, but you do it anyways. Yeah. So but you didn't do it because it was reckless. You did it with with good intentions. So I just want to highlight that. All right. In this season of life or yeah, I'll say it from my perspective. But you hear a lot of talk, especially from your background, iOS. I'm sure you can appreciate this. There's always the talk of adding right, adding systems, adding strategies, adding, adding, adding, but also subtraction also is also required as part of growth. Right. Should be. Yeah. Right. So for you, was it something you've had to unlearn or unbelieve. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Um, or something. Some type of friction you had to remove from your life to level up. Yeah. So, um, interesting you say that because it really revolves around people and it's like, you know, there's people in your life where you, where there, where they, when, when you're talking to them, they're either quite negative or they're, and that's okay. People are allowed to be negative, but when they're, when they're that all the time, it becomes a bit toxic. And yeah, and I can recall this happening where I've just said, I've said a few times like, I can't being around this person isn't doing me any good at all. I'm, I'm slipping into, you know, like in the Muppets, the two guys that sit up on the. And they sit there and complain. Yes, yes. And you think to yourself, I don't want to end up like that guy. So now I can't get that vision out of my head. Yeah. So, so, so for me, the unlearning or the learning part was about Even if they're, um, you know, close to you and through whatever form it is, it's like, just cut it loose, man, because it's not helping. Yeah. That's so true. That's so true. I've had, I've had to do a lot of that in my life, you know. So I certainly understand that it's so true. All right. Last two questions man. Both of these I've prepared you for in the green room in in the in the trenches. What is a quote or directive or anything that you've you've pulled yourself from. Right. You know, maybe there's a quote or something that brought you inspiration to get you through that moment. What was that? Yeah. So, um, quick story. This is something I tell my boys. So, um, uh, when we were in the US, we were walking to, to the elementary school and Charlie, my oldest boy, he would have been about six at the time. He sprained his ankle on the way to school and it wasn't a bad sprain. And he was like, oh, I can't go to school. It really hurts. And I just said, mate, you've just got to push through. You've just got to push through, right? You just push through. Walk to school, you'll be right. And and so, you know, that's the mantra right for me is just push through. Love it. Just push through. And I love the story, man, because it gives some context of, of, yeah, we just, it may suck in that moment. We just gotta push through it, you know? Um, I love it man. All right. Last question is a two part question. I'll ask you the first part first, uh, because I tend to get a little excited and in the conversation, I forget to ask it. So I'm going to ask this last part first. Yeah. Hey, so, uh, for you, what would you love to ask my next guest? And for those who are listening or watching, I'll always love to give an opportunity for a guest to ask my next guest, uh, challenge him with a question. And the lineup is completely anonymous, right? So, um, with that, what would you love to ask my next guest? How much of your life was planned and how much it was related to luck? Ooh. Oh, that's so good. I love that, and looking at my guest lineup. That's perfect. That's great man. That's. I so love doing these things. All right. So my previous guest had this for you, uh, talking about, you know, pivotal moments and so forth. What was a season of life that in the moment, it was probably horrible, but you could say thank you for. MM. Yeah. I think, um. Uh, outside of what we spoke about earlier, there was a, uh, so, you know, the easy answer is, oh yeah, when I was in a car and all that sort of stuff. But to give a bit more flavor to your, to the, to the audience, there was a time when I was in executive management role working in an organization, and it was completely toxic. It was terrible. It was hard, hard work. Um, uh, the leadership team wasn't, um, singing off the same page. It was, you know, it was like the office, but, you know, the show. But but rather than being funny, it was quite sad and it sucks. Um, and I was there for a period of time. Um, but I'm so thankful for it because it taught me a lot about what I didn't want to be and where I didn't want to be. Yeah. So that was, that was a pretty significant moment. I thought, I'm not, I'm not doing this anymore. Yeah, I could definitely resonate, man. I, I've been in a lot of situations, you know, with the government. Government contracting and working with, you know, I, I, I've been in some environments. I look back, I'm like, I'm saying thank you for because it really helped me form to be the leader that I don't want to be because of that. Right? Yeah, exactly. So love it man. Well, Mary, my dude really appreciated you sharing the last hour with us, man. Tons of value in this, right? Um, but thank you for not just sharing, you know, the highlight reel of, you know, MIT grad, uh, you know, all the facilitations you've done to the world, but you also allowed us to be a glimpse behind the scenes, you know, from, you know, that your time as a cop, you know, essentially life handed you a lot of lessons, but allow us really to see that. So honor and respect you for that. My man. Thank you. Thanks, Kyle. Appreciate being on. Yeah, absolutely. So again, guys, those are listening are watching everything about Murray. If you want to connect with him or anything of that nature will be in the show notes, please. You know, feel free to reach out. It's through socials or website or anything that we drop in the show notes to those listening and watching. Right now, the gap between average and excellence is just action, even imperfect action, right? So please guys, don't just take, you know, don't just sit here and listen. Murray today, take one thing that he shared and implement it today. Not tomorrow, not Monday, unless today is Monday. If you're listening to this, take it and use it. And as well as that be the reason someone doesn't quit today. Don't just keep this episode to yourself. So when your circle needs this right now. So send it to him. Murray again, my dude, thank you so much for stepping in my dude. Awesome, man. It's good to have you. Thanks. Appreciate it. Absolutely.